Friday, March 27, 2015

Mathematical Patterns In The Quran

In this debate, Jay Smith destroys the very old Muslim claim that the Quran is unchanged.  Jay asserts the Quran that we have today is from 1924 and produced in Cairo:

https://youtu.be/fWHV9VnOJtc

In a previous debate Shabir Ally was willing to defend the Quran manuscripts, but now he at least twice declines to defend the older editions of the Quran, and bypasses a discussion of how the 1924 Quran is related to what Mohammed recited.
Instead he talks about mathematical patters in the Quran of today:

[1]
https://youtu.be/fWHV9VnOJtc?t=16m0s

What we look at is, the Quran that we hold in our hands today, regardless of the history,
because we can discuss that in detail and sometimes we get lost in the detail.
But when we pick up a copy of the Quran today, what academics usually refer to as the Egyptian edition of the Quran
[16:28] that is widespread, printed in Median and circulated for free,
we find that things in this Quran are arranged in mathematical patterns...

[2]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWHV9VnOJtc&feature=youtu.be&t=53m40s

I want to look at the Quran as we have it now...
and say that, regardless of all of the history that Jay has talked about,
which requires some discussion and investigation, let's look at this book itself,
and ask, is there anything in this book that indicates its divine origins...

Are these "patterns" really a miracle?

For at least as long as Muslims have had the "99 names of Allah", there was a culture of counting words in the Quran.  This is as old as the rosary-like prayer beads they use.

If Muslims were motivated to find the "mathematical patterns" in the Quran that Shabir Ally presented, then who is to say that they did not deliberately put them in in 1924?

The bottom line is that there is nothing in the Quran that was not capable of being constructed in 1924.

  If they were making claims about 20 digit prime numbers, that would be one thing, but all they are claiming is just simple arithmetic and science that was well-known at the time.


The Cairo edition is not a miracle by 1924 standards, and Jay Smith points out that it may not even be a miracle by any standard.
Here he shows that patters of this sort are commonly found with enough effort:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWHV9VnOJtc&feature=youtu.be&t=1h50m40s

Also, it is a a good thing that Allah disguised the Quran as the sayings of someone who was ignorant of the Bible (5:116-117), lest the kuffars benefit from all the scientific insights in it and win all the Nobel prizes in science, rather than the Muslims.

http://simpleargumentsversusislam.blogspot.com/2014/08/islams-intellectual-contributions-to.html

Also, what was the evidence for the Quran before 1924?

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